Makes sense. The Iraqis have not yet burdened themselves with a welfare state.

Was the polling done before the Madrid bombing or afterward?

Interesting, but not all *that* surprising. Both nations face serious problems. Iraqi leaders are doing something about their problems. German leaders are not. The Iraqis are getting loads of help with their problems, the Germans none.

We can fix that--let's invade!

Big deal. I am also less optimistic about Germany's future than Iraqs.

Iraq is a de facto American colony, of course they're better off.

Though I do wonder, what else will the Iraqis pull to keep us from leaving?

What's horrible is that it's not surprising in the least.

Happiness is relative. Think of where the Iraqis were last year relative to where they are now. Then Think of where the Germans were. There's really no reason for the Germans to be optomistic ...

Screws in your head ? Germany is a highly industrialized country, like the USA is, and has to overcome similar issues like unemployment. Now iraq is a destroyed country and there is nothing that could be worse than that. If they were not optimistic, it would be kinda strange, eh ?
You can't compare these 2 countries econimically.

Tourist:

But you can compare them in ways other than economically.

Socially, Germany is still an aging population. At some point, that's going to come back to haunt them. Native, "Teutonic" Germans will be rare - maybe not a bad thing itself (I am of Germanic descent, BTW).

And a lot of social services bills will be coming due in the next few years...that alone is a visible dark cloud on the horizon. Hans and Fritz will have to make some hard decisions when (not if) the US withdraws its troops from Europe: free lunch is over.
Perhaps the Iraqis are right after all...they DO have a brighter future.

Lol,

what if the USA withdraws its troops in europe ? Will Poland try to invade Germany ?
BTW I don't have a problem to discuss german future, even if it seems to be dark. But unfortunatly this is only hate speech and is not contributing anything but deepening the cliche of the "arrogant american" in Germany. Unfortunatly Charlie, you are acting like we're your ultimate enemy, which is not true.

To quote John Goodman in "The Big Lebowski".

"Relax Dude, they're German Nihilists"

>Iraq is a de facto American colony, of course they're better off.

Oh, now I know why so many Germans try to immigrate into Iraq and also why German government is illegaly trying to keep Iraqi asylum seekers in Germany who so desperately want to leave.

>Will Poland try to invade Germany ?

Don't forget Luxemburg!

Tourist,

I believe the reference to US troops pulling out of Germany was to the economic impact.

Also, as to unconstructive hate-speech, you must understand that much of what Americans hear coming from Europe can't sound any more asinine and hateful. When all we hear is shrieking about what fat, stupid religious fanatics we all are, we pretty much feel that the deep cliches are already in place. You see what you want to see.

Tourist: Now what is hate speech? Aging populations? Future welfare bills and fund sources? End of free lunch?

Enlighten me, O Sage, where is hatred and why? Just because you don't agree?

We have a Native American Idiom for "Hate Speech".

"Politically Correct Horse Shit"

Over to you, Tourist.

Lemme know.

Tourist:

PS: I would place even money on a successful Polish invasion.

Even if there was organized resistance.

The Polish invasion of Germany is already happening. Though its aims won't fit your dreams.

They come by train, car and any other means avaiable looking for work in Germany.

Tourist:

Still waiting for your answer, pal.

I trust it's a good one?

"What is happiness? The feeling that power is increasing, that obstacles are being overcome." -Nietzsche

"Hans and Fritz will have to make some hard decisions when (not if) the US withdraws its troops from Europe: free lunch is over."

Hans and Fritz will probably dance in the streets that day. If somebody is having free lunch it's rather the US troops in Germany than the other way round.

>The Polish invasion of Germany is already happening. Though its aims won't fit your dreams.
They come by train, car and any other means avaiable looking for work in Germany.

I bet you meant "They come by train, leave by car"
Btw. Germany / old Europe opens itself to the competition on the labour market (in an a few years). I don't think, the US would dare to doing with Mexico what we do with Eastern Europe. It's called fairness and not just forcing neighbours to open their markets and shutting the own country up. So, are you really more up to it when it comes to take responsibility for the future? Of course I admit we also do a lot of things wrong, but some decisions we made will FORCE us to make the other tough decisions in the very near future.

Jens:

So, when you open yourself to competition in a few years, does that mean that the Poles (and Czechs and others) who come will be able to become German citizens as well?

Does that mean that the Turks who have been guest-workers (and their third generation offspring) will also be able to become citizens?

Keep in mind that a major reason we control our borders is not to keep laborers out (indeed, there's quite a few laborers here, illegally), but because if they stay here, they (and certainly their children) WILL be American citizens.

I don't think so....

To Dean:
It is just a difference in the waiting period, not in policy. If they stay and work long enough in Germany they are eligible for German citizenship.

Dean,
as The Old European says. There's one more thing: only citizenship discussions were (and are) about double citizenship. Being Turkish citizen AND German citizen. May look strange to you that there is discussion about such a normal thing, but here we first have to be convinced, if THAT experiment is really necessary.