VodkapunditVodkapunditVodkapundit
Need to Know
Posted by Stephen Green  ·  16 July 2003

John Dvorak has six ideas on how to spam-proof email. The last three are the biggies:

Spoof-proof authentication. Much of the problem with spam is that it comes from unknown senders who cannot be isolated or shut down. Spoofing is just too easy; we should be able to spoof-proof the system. Along with this idea comes authentication, so you know whom the message is really from. This would also minimize virus outbreaks; today, when you get mail from a friend with an attached virus, you can't be certain who is really sending it.

Privacy. E-mail systems should be completely encrypted and secure. The U.S. Postal Service guarantees that mail is secure and cannot be opened (once posted) by anyone except the recipient. E-mail should have the same basic safeguards.

Systemic antiviral agents. There is no doubt that e-mail is the major distribution mechanism for viruses. This makes it less useful, because many people will no longer open or examine attachments from anyone. All messages should be signed and encrypted before transmission.

Now, can some of you smart network-type people tell me if any of these ideas are doable without needing an entirely new email system and software?

Comments

Short answer: nope.

Long answer:

Spoofing - Authentication would be wonderful, and is doable if you're willing to set up a central authentication system that would contain information on everyone who sends e-mail to you and vice versa. User level authentication is a variant that was discussed a few months back (can't remember where). Basically, if the sender isn't on your list of trusted sources the mail doesn't get delivered, and in order to get on the list the software sent a authorization query to the sender, who would reply correctly and be added to the list. There are some obvious holes in that, least of which is inconvienence.

Security - Security was not an issue when the e-mail protocols were designed and implemented. Workarounds such as encryption and digital signatures can make it better, but to really achieve the level of security he's talking about here would require a ground-up redesign of the protocols with security as the number one priority.

Anti-Virals - Looks good on paper, doesn't work in RL. Most users don't install A/V software, and even those who do don't always keep it maintained/updated. One option I've seen was to force ISPs to use A/V software on their mail/relay servers, but that's a little too intrusive for my tastes. Short of forcing everyone on the 'net to run and maintain A/V software (or having a central site that does it for them), I don't see any way that this could be done without radical changes.

I'm sure there are some errors in this, but I'm in a hurry. Hope it helps.

Posted by: Matt at July 16, 2003 04:59 PM

Something of the like could be hacked together using current open-standards based mailer daemons (e.g. sendmail, exim, postfix), but the problem ends up being that everyone has to run the same type of system security. If joe blow isn't running spoof-proof mailer software, and jane doe is, jane's server will reject mail from joe even if he's not a spammer. That means joe is forced to use it.

Another very large issue that comes into play is exactly who dictates the standard for the spoof-proof authentication. If it's Microsoft, you can fairly well rest assured that a) People will find a way around it, and b) No one else will be able to play with it. Not a good solution, by any means.

I don't see a pressing need to spam-proof email, just as I don't see a need to duct tape a claymore mine to my mailbox to ward off print-spam. If you don't want it, there are several steps a user can take to block it.

I use Apple's mail.app mail client, which includes a learning AI spam-blocking feature. I get several hundred spam mails per day, yet only one or two get through the filter, and it gets smarter the more you use it.

In a nutshell: The responsibility should fall to the user to block spam. ISPs, of course, can take a host of measures to significantly reduce it, but ultimately the decision of how to deal with it should be yours.

My decision was to use an OS that is impervious to 99.9% of virii, and a mail client that can intelligently block spam.

Posted by: Mr. Lion at July 16, 2003 05:00 PM

... should be completely encrypted and secure...

This will be MOST problematical; the Homeland (In)Security Department is adamantly agains encryption, as it "might" interfere with their ability to eavesdrop. Unlike postal material which requires a court order to open, the feds want the right available with no interference to read eMails.

Posted by: MommaBear at July 16, 2003 05:08 PM

TO: Stephen Green
RE: Short Answer

Mac OS X with iMail.

The elimination of spam is VERY effective.

Half of my daily 100 items used to be spam. [Note: I make a lot of comments on blogs.]

Now 99% of that half is dumped into the Junk 'pile' automatically.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

Posted by: Chuck Pelto at July 16, 2003 05:20 PM

Stopping spam at the level Dvork, and many others want, is absolutely NOT doable without either a redesign of the SMTP protocol, or intrusive force placed on SOMEBODY (end-users, ISP's, businesses, etc).

Spoof-proof authentication: Can't really be done without forcing all email users ALL OVER THE WORLD to use a trusted central authority to authenticate senders to receivers. For a multitude of reasons, this will not happen.

Privacy: encrypted and/or secure email is already available to anyone who wants it. PGP (and open GPG) provide encryption/authentication, and there are SSL-enabled IMAP/POP/SMTP/Webmail apps to transmit and receive securely as well. However, in this case, one would have to force users to use these methods, and that is just too intrusive.

Systemic antiviral agents: Dvorak is off his rocker if he thinks that viruses will just up and wither away without email transmission... They spread like wildfire without email just as easily as with.

The fact is spam will never go away unless it stops working... It's still here for a reason, folks, and it's not just to irritate you. And there are some VERY smart people making sure that they get around all the various methods of stopping it.

And redesigning SMTP to something different will probably never happen as well. There is WAY too much infrastructure in place that would need to be supported, and tools already exist that do a more than adequate job in reducing spam. If you use those tools avaliable, and NOT make a major federal issue out of a couple pieces a day, the problem is no longer.

Posted by: Exanter at July 16, 2003 05:33 PM

But I'm having so much fun with spam...

Posted by: Scott Ganz at July 16, 2003 06:20 PM


Freedom. Efficiency. Security.

Pick two.

Posted by: Mike Spenis at July 17, 2003 08:08 AM

My short answer is "no". My long answer is on my blog, here.

The reality is, it would be possible, but so would supplying all of our electic power needs via nuclear power plants. It will be equally improbable in practice. Like that example, the necessary changes to eliminate spam would have a lot of benefits, but also a lot of costs and risks.


Posted by: Jeff Medcalf at July 17, 2003 12:39 PM

Well, probably not at the user level -- there are signature modes available now, but few use them.

HOWEVER, there might be quick fixes at the server level that would be possible.

For example, a DNS record could contain a public key, and mailservers getting inbound mail purportedly from a given domain could test a short, encrypted block in the mailheader (say subject, sender & time) against the domain's (or mailserver's) public key. This would cut down on many forgeries. The authority issuing the keys would be the domain registrar, or some uber-registrar. The system would be voluntary, although one could set one's own mailserver to reject non-conforming inbound mail.

Changes: Registrar (major new function), DNS (modest), SMTP (moderate), POP & user (transparent).

Downside: Computational burden on mailservers. Although reduction of spam relieves mailservers of perhaps a greater burden.

Problem: Would require auxillary filtering on known rogue domains. But a blacklist at the purported domain level is a lot easier than on IP, especially if the domain is authenticable.


Posted by: Kevin Murphy at July 17, 2003 02:06 PM

The security and (message-level) authentication thing is easily managed for those who *care* by a "simple" encryption and signing program (ala PGP, whatever).

Of course, the vast majority of people don't care to bother with that for their email - as most email is not "sensitive".

As to virus checks, "buy antivirus software" is the key. Though, it's probably GOOD that people don't run or open random attachments they weren't expecting - there's plenty of room for people to write plain old executables that, say, wipe your hard drive, and no antivirus software can tell one of those from a picture viewer or game installer or whatever, as long as the Bad Guy doesn't use the same program over and over so they can get a signature for it.

(I do wonder why he includes "signed and encrypted before transmission" under "systemic antivirus protection"... I'm unaware of a tendency for viruses to be inserted into content in transit, although it's technically possible to do so...)

Posted by: Sigivald at July 17, 2003 02:14 PM

Maybe there's something wrong with me. but I don't mind spam. Hitting DEL ain't all that hard, plus the nigerian spam is sometimes riotously funny (lately they open with 'My Dear').

As to viruses, not being stupid helps. Don't open executable attachments without scanning them first, Don't use Microsoft products for email. Don't delete any files that some email forward claims is a virus.

In the past five years I've been infected by a virus ONCE. I don't even run any antivirus programs, I just do a complete system scan every six months or so. It can't be that hard.

Posted by: Sam at July 20, 2003 04:43 AM



Navigation

MDS - Give Until It Hurts

Terror War Scorecard
Watching America

50 Things
American Cancer Ablation Center
Buy VodkaPundit Stuff



VodkaPundit on Amazon
Vodkapundit for PDA (AvantGo)
Vodkapundit for PDA (Not)
VodkaPundit XML or RDF

Search



Advanced Search



Last Call

The Author

"Son, don't be stupid on purpose."
-SFC Thomas A. Teel

Absolut Link

Blog-Iran

Top Shelf

Ann Althouse
Baldilocks
Austin Bay
Belmont Club
Tim Blair
Chequer Board
Command Post
Counterterrorism Blog
Day By Day
Daniel Drezner
From the Bleachers
Hit & Run
INDC Journal
Iraq the Model
James Joyner
James Lileks
Megan McArdle
OPFOR
Protein Wisdom
Glenn Reynolds
Bill Roggio
ScreedBlog
Roger L. Simon
Rob Smith
Steven Taylor
Venomous Kate
Matt Welch
Winds of Change
Michael Yon
Yuppies of Zion


The Usual

Across the Atlantic
Anticipatory Retaliation
Atlas Shrugs
The Black Republican
Blogcritics
Captain's Quarters
Phil Carter
The Daily Ablution
Andrew Ian Dodge
Eye on the Left
Mike Hendrix
In From the Cold
Charles Johnson
Kathy Kinsley
A Likely Story
Brian Linse
Jay Manifold
Neocon News
Frank Martin
QandO
Bill Quick
Rantburg
John Scalzi
Sine Qua Non Pundit
Team Stryker
Mac Thomason
Michael Totten
Jesse Walker
Dr. Weevil
Bill Whittle
Chief Wiggles
Sissy Willis
Cathy Young

Micro Brews

American Realpolitik
Black Five
Boots and Sabers
Capitalist Lion
Scott Chaffin
John Cole
Coming Anarchy
Bo Cowgill
Dr. Frank's Blogs of War
Donklephant
Ed Driscoll
Kim du Toit
Glenn Frazier
Joe Gandleman
The Gay Patriot
Godless Capitalist
Bill Hobbs
John Hudock
Frank J.'s IMAO
Joanne Jacobs
Brothers Judd
Junk Yard Blog
Major John
Davids Medienkritik
Mr. Misha's Rottweiler
Only Baseball Matters
Matt Moore
Jack O'Toole
Peaktalk
Eric S. Raymond
Red Sugar
Resurrection Song
Robin Roberts
Andrea See
Mathew Sheren
Spoons Experience
DC Thornton
Yankee Station

Gin & Tonic

Albion's Seedlings
American Digest
Radley Balko
Paul Berger
Robert Bidinotto
Blogometer
BusinessPundit
The Chicago Boyz
Classical Values
Conrad the Expat
Susanna Cornett
Dave Cullen
England's Sword
Dean Esmay
Horsefeathers
Jessica's Well
Alex Knapp
Legal Spin
Light of Reason
The Lipstick Republican
Moxie
OxBlog
Suman Palit
Punch the Bag
The Pursuit of Happiness
Samizdata
Sofia Sideshow
Natalie Solent
Texas Best Grok
Professor Michael Tinkler
Cal Ulmann
Brothers Volokh

Cosmopolitans

Justene Adamec
Stephen Bainbridge
La Shawn Barber
Moira Breen
Sasha Castel
Colorado Psycho
Clayton Cramer
CrossingWallStreet
Martin Devon
Kevin Drum
Henry Hanks
Diana Hsieh
Jeff Jarvis
Jessica
Sean Kirby
Liberty Belles
Rachel Lucas
Jeralyn Merritt
Philip Murphy
Oasis of Sanity
Andrew Olmsted
Walter Olson
Michael Parker
Popped Culture
Porphyrogenitus
Fritz Schrank
Donald Sensing
Elizabeth Spiers
The Swanky Conservative
Two Blowhards
Michael Ubaldi
Alexandra von Maltzan
Will Wilkinson

Rum & Coke

The Argument Clinic
Below the Beltway
The Bitch Girls
Jay Caruso
Dog's Life
Fire On The Mountain
GeckoBlue
GZ Expat
David Hogberg
John Hawkins
Horologium
Kris Lofgren
Floyd McWilliams
John Moore
PhotoDude
Robyn Pollman
Chas Rich
Silflay Hraka
Geitner Simmons
Skippy
Dave Tepper
Transterrestrial Musings
Trying to Grok
Walter in Denver
Don Watkins
Weekend Pundit
Joshua Zader

Tequila Shots

Todd A
N.Z. Bear
Begging to Differ
David MSC
Gary Farber
Highered Intelligence
Isntapundit
Jonathan and Wanda
Ken Layne
Nick Marsala
Dan Michalski
Sheila O'Malley
Dawn Olsen
Tony Pierce
Raving Atheist
Matt Traylor
Sekimori
WMET Blog
World Wide Rant

Manischewitz

Moe Freedman
Tal G. in Jerusalem
IsraPundit
Kesher Talk
Mike Silverman
Allison Kaplan Sommer
Meryl Yourish

Boozehounds

Allah Is In the House
Dave Barry's Blog
The Daily Sedative
Doug Dever
Daniel Frank
Scott Ott
Large American Penis
Short Strange Trip
Ten Fingers, Six Strings
Jim Treacher

Cyanide-Laced Kool-Aid

Laurence Simon

Sex on the Beach

Body in Mind
ErosBlog
Eroticalee
Just One Bite
Fred Lapides
New York Hotties
SLA
Unablogger

Kegger

Ben Domenech
HokiePundit
Hoosier Review
John Tabin
Nicholas West

Fosters

Duck Season
Mike Jericho
John Ray
Bernard Slattery
Whacking Day

Molson

Banana Counting Monkey
Daimnation!
Dispatches
David Janes
Western Standard

Left Wing Bar Nuts

Ted Barlow
Joshua Marshall
Dan Perkins

Cover Charge

Eric Alterman
Dave Barry
Barone Blog
Austin Bay
Jay Bryant
C-Log
Campaign Desk
Steve Chapman
Dallas News Blog
Matt Drudge
Google News
Nat Henthoff
Hugh Hewitt
Mickey Kaus
Howard Kurtz
National Review Online
The New Republic
The New York Times
Newsweek
OpinionJournal
Kathleen Parker
Daniel Pipes
Virginia Postrel
Roll Call
Larry Sabato
Linda Seebach
Slate
Sploid
Mark Steyn
StrategyPage
Andrew Sullivan
Tapped
Tech Central Station
Time
US News & World Report
David Warren
The Washington Post

Under the Table

American Times
Angry Left
Asparagirl
BitchPundit
John Braue
Shiloh Bucher
Carthaginian Peace
Lorenzo Cortes
Steven Den Beste
Fevered Rants
Scott "Funkadelic" Ganz
Juan Gato
Happy Fun Pundit
Andrea Harris
Scott Koenig
Brink Lindsey
Sue Lizano
Kieran Lyons
Mean Mr. Mustard
Meeshness
Punditwatch
Dennis Rogers
Jim Ryan
Spinsanity
Unremitting Verse
Norah Vincent
Tony Woodlief

Archives

Powered by Movable TypeDesign by Sekimori